What to do when clients don’t get your agency what it needs to succeed

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Chip Griffin: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.

Chip Griffin: Gini, I think we need to talk about the fact that I’m just not getting enough timely feedback from you and input on topics and research and all of that kind of thing.

Gini Dietrich: Okay. I like it. Let’s do that.

Do I get to give the feedback now?

Chip Griffin: I thought I was going to give you the feedback.

Gini Dietrich: Shoot. I thought you were not getting timely feedback from me.

Chip Griffin: I wasn’t, but I was going to give you feedback on your lack of feedback. I wasn’t actually. Yeah.

Gini Dietrich: Oh, that’s very meta, okay.

Chip Griffin: I, I’m afraid, I’m afraid what would happen if you actually started giving me feedback.

Gini Dietrich: You should be afraid.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, but no, we are going to talk about what happens when agencies are not getting what they need from their clients, whether that is feedback or research or access or approvals or edits or whatever, because this is a common challenge that agencies of all sizes have, but it, it has a particular impact on small agencies because you can’t be successful in most cases.

If you are not truly working in partnership with your clients and getting things from them to move the ball forward. And that might be trying to arrange to get an expert on an interview with a reporter or something like that. And so you need to get schedules and can coordinate it. Not every client is good with that.

Many clients are really bad about giving you timely feedback on drafts and things like that. So what are some strategies for dealing with it? And how do you avoid getting in a situation where you fail because you didn’t get what you need from the client? Because the clients never blame themselves. I, I’ve yet to see a circumstance where the client’s like, yeah, you know, we know this fell apart because of us.

They always point the finger of blame at the agency they’re paying.

Gini Dietrich: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, this has been a recurring theme throughout my career, of course. And this is, of course, why it’s a topic, because I think it’s a recurring theme for all of us. The good news is, is there’s a lot of software today that helps with that, because they will get notifications and things like that, that don’t have to come from you, but come from the software.

So there, there is that option. But even still, like we have one client we’re getting access and information from their subject matter experts continues to be one of our biggest challenges and we have tried everything. And then even when we get the information from the SMAE and we, we will like, I, I tested this just to see because my team gets so frustrated by it.

They will take the SMAE’s words verbatim and put them into content and the subject matter expert will be like, Nope, this isn’t right. And you’re like, Oh my gosh, it’s exactly what you said. So there, there are all sorts of challenges to this, but I think one of the biggest advantages we have today and going forward is, is access to software that will help us with some of it.

Chip Griffin: And, and so just elaborate on that a little bit. I assume you’re talking about project tracking software that shows what the blockers are and things like that.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I mean, project management software is one of the biggest things. It’s one of the first questions we ask a new client as we’re onboarding them is what project management system they use.

We have one client right now that doesn’t use anything. They just use spreadsheets. And we’re like, yes, that’s not going to work. So in some cases, we will implement or insert ourselves into their project management system, and in some cases, they will be implemented into ours, just depending on how it works.

And then, you know, they get the, they get the notifications, they get the emails, they get the reminders that say this is coming up due. And, and we, we use ClickUp, so we can say we send them a reminder when it’s three days due, send them a reminder the day before. And so it does, it does all of that for you, so that you don’t have to be the one for lack of a better term, nagging them.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, and I think, I think that is one of the keys is that you have to have some sort of a way of making clear to everybody who owes what when. And software obviously does make that so much easier today. But it may also be that in whatever regular reporting that you’re doing with clients, you need to make clear here are the things that we are still waiting on.

Because a lot of times, particularly if you’re dealing with multiple contacts within an organization, the project, the lead on the client side may not be aware of exactly what is not happening on their side. And they can light a fire if they know about it. But a lot of times we on the agency side are afraid to raise those things because, you know, we don’t want to rat out the juniors we’re working with or something like that.

We want to feel like we’re the tattletale. But at some point, whoever is the senior person on the client side needs to understand what’s not happening on their side. Because it has an impact on the outcome. And you don’t want to wait till the end to say, well, we never got these seven things. They need to know it when they can still do something about it.

And before there has been a failure.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And I think that’s part of, I think overall agencies can do a better job of onboarding client, new clients and going through that process with them. To say, listen, and, and maybe it’s not onboarding a brand new client. Maybe it’s starting a new project or starting a new campaign to say, okay, do we all agree that this is the end deliverable and the due date then, and then we’ll back it out from there.

And. If you, like clients, if you don’t meet these deadlines, then this is what will happen. And then as you’re going through the process to say, okay, this is due in two days. If you don’t get it to us, it’s going to push this, this, and this back. So It’s sort of like the whole, it’s the same kind of conversation that you have when you’re over, when you’re about to over service.

We’re happy to do that for you, but here’s how, here’s how it will affect the rest of the budget, the campaign, whatever it happens to be. It’s the same conversation. It’s continuing to have those open and transparent conversations. And it’s not, it’s not bad. It’s not critical. It’s just, hey, listen, this is due in two days.

And if we don’t get it, it’s going to going to affect this, this and this.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s a valuable piece of insight that you need to be able to show that there are consequences to, to the actions. And here is what that consequence is. And it’s very common, for example, when you are, doing web development, which is something I did with one of my agencies, years ago.

You know, we would have project timelines and when we didn’t get feedback on wireframes, we would say, okay, here’s the updated timeline that now shows where we’re at. So you can, you can literally see in real time the effect of your failure to get consensus on your side or whatever. And you can see these things happening and it then puts it on the client’s

plate to figure out, are we okay with that? Or are we going to do something to light that fire and start getting you things more quickly?

Gini Dietrich: Right. And I think we see a lot of this too, in, earnings releases. I mean, we do, or we do work with a lot of startups. So when they go to announce a new round of funding, they always want to make changes the morning that you’re announcing it and you’re like, you can’t make changes.

It’s already been uploaded to the wire. It’s about, you can’t, we’re done, right? Right. Or they don’t get you stuff the day before they want to announce. And so then it pushes it back because as it turns out, you can’t just go to business wire and upload something and have it released five minutes later.

So they have to understand that there are implications and consequences to your point when they don’t do it. And I think it’s, it’s less about wanting to be people pleasers and wanting to, to not tattle and more about, Hey, listen, we all have a job to do and we need you to do, to do your part for like, we’ll manage as much as we can, but you still have to do your part.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And I, and I think it is, it is becoming more complicated. Some, some things are becoming easier because we’ve got software, as you mentioned. But I think it’s becoming more complicated because clients are looking to find ways to reduce the costs that they have with agencies. And so often they will come to the agency and say, well, what if we take on some of this work and you take on some of this work?

And so if you’re in a situation where the client, for example, says, okay, well, we’ll, we’ll take on doing the research part of it, we’ll send you the research, and then you’ll just write from that, for example. Versus, you know, maybe five years ago when budgets were a little bit richer, they would have just said, hey, you do the research, you do the writing, we’ll just approve it.

And so now they’re, they’re trying to, to find ways to, to do some burden sharing so that they don’t have to put as much money on the table to the agency. But that then makes it more difficult because now we’re into a realm of not really just getting feedback and approvals, which is easy, clear cut. But if you’re not giving me the research that I need, I can’t even start to write.

And so then that creates a, another layer of challenge. And, and I’ve seen agencies who say, well, to make this successful, we’re just going to start doing the research anyway. We know we’re not being paid for it, but we got to do it because we don’t want to get fired or get yelled at because we are not moving forward and hitting the deadlines that we have, even though it’s because we didn’t get these things.

And so it, it’s a very challenging situation for agencies to figure out how to navigate that because in general, I would tell agencies, don’t do work you’re not being paid to do.

Gini Dietrich: Don’t do that. Right.

Chip Griffin: At the same time, if you don’t do it. And if you start missing deadlines, it’s a, it’s a challenge sometimes to sell that.

And so some things like feedback and approvals, you can’t take on yourself, but when it’s work you can take on yourself, that really, I think is where the big challenge lies for agencies today.

Gini Dietrich: Well, and then it becomes an over service piece for you. So say, so then you can go back to the client and say, Hey, listen, we’re having trouble getting this accomplished.

We can do the work. Would you like us to adjust the plan? And push budget out so that we’re not going to do A, B, and C later in the year. Would you like to figure out a way to incorporate more budget so that we can get it done for you? Or can we light a fire and get this done? So give them, you know, some options because I think, I think in many cases, not all, but in many cases, the client will say, you know what, let’s just throw some money at it and you guys get it done for us.

We’re just, we’re just too busy. We’re going through a reorg, we’re, you know, whatever it happens to be, there’s stuff that happens internally all the time. That nobody can control. So in some cases, they may just throw money at it to have you do it, but don’t over service without having that conversation.

Chip Griffin: Right.

And I think that that you can’t be afraid to have these difficult conversations with clients. We’ve talked about this before in other areas as well. But you need to be having an open line of communication with your clients so that they understand what challenges exist on your side, on their side, somewhere in the environment, whatever, so that you can address problems earlier, as opposed to waiting until they really come to a head and now it becomes a crisis because the release needs to be out in three days, or the website needs to be launched for an event, or whatever.

You need to be, as soon as you start seeing problems, you need to communicate that. And you need to gradually escalate it as needed in order to get the resolution in terms of changed deadlines, increased budget, modified scope, whatever it is that, that needs to be done to fix it. But at some point you may also get to the realization that there’s no way that you can be successful within the bounds of what the client is paying, allowing, doing, etc.

And so in those cases you may need to have a very difficult conversation with them and say, if this doesn’t get fixed, we’re going to need to end this relationship and that’s not comfortable.

Gini Dietrich: Not comfortable at all.

Chip Griffin: But if you know that you’re not going to succeed there’s no reason to keep banging your head against the wall just because you think you might get a couple more months of cash out of it. Because it because you’re going to sour the relationship even more than it may already have been If you do that, so it’s much better to resolve that sooner rather than later.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I’m one of the things I always say to my friends and my coaching clients is listen, you’ve built an agency where trust is the currency. And you have reputation. And most of us grow our agencies because of referrals and, and word of mouth, right?

And our ability to do that is because of our reputation. So why would you avoid having the hard conversations, the critical conversations you need to have to protect your reputation at all costs? That’s what you’re doing. Yeah, it’s hard. Yeah, it’s uncomfortable, but protect your reputation at all costs, because that’s, what’s going to drive your business forward. Every single time.

So, you know, if you’re, if you have a hard time with it, there’s a great book called Critical Conversations. Read it, it will help you sort of think that through. And then it helps you change your mindset in terms of, this is less about, this being a challenging, challenging conversation and more about us finding a way to come together and figure this out.

And, and that may be that you cut ties, but I tell you what, every single time you lose a client or you fire a client, something bigger and better comes along. Every time.

Chip Griffin: Absolutely. And, and, you know, we, we focus mostly here on, on what the agency can do with the client, but there are things that you can do internally as well when you’re in this situation.

And I think as owners, the first thing is we need to make sure that we are aware of the problems that may exist. Fair. Yep. And so we need to communicate to our own team members that if they are running into these obstacles, if they are not getting what they need from the client, they need to make us aware of it so that we can help figure out how to knock down those roadblocks.

And it’s one of the reasons why I’m such a big believer in the weekly one on one. Because that is typically an opportunity where someone can raise, well, we’re just not getting what we need. They might not send a separate email to you or request a separate meeting with you to, to tell you that they’ve got a problem with the client.

But if you’re doing these weekly one on ones, it’s that venue because one of the questions should be, how can I help? What, what obstacles can I get rid of for you? And if one of them is this client isn’t giving me what I need, you can figure out how to address that. So there are internal things that you can be doing as well, in order to address some of that. And, and if you’re not getting timely feedback, or not getting timely research, think about, are there ways that I could get it more easily from the client? In other words, could I reduce their burden? So, for example, if you’re looking for research from a subject matter expert, could you just schedule a call and record it and transcribe it, versus asking them to send you materials?

It might be easier just to get 30 minutes on their calendar, have a conversation, and get either all or most of what you need in that, as opposed to waiting for them to write something up, go through their files, whatever. A lot of times it’s just trapped in their head, and if you can have a conversation, that’s good enough.

And so, think about how you can reduce the level of friction, and so that’s an internal conversation. You know, what, what do we really need? Are we asking for too much from the client? Are we asking for it too timely? In other words, if we know that the client takes a week to give feedback, don’t build a timeline that, that says that they give feedback in 72 hours. Because you know, it’s not going to happen.

It’s one of the reasons why I love paid discovery or initial projects with clients, because you figure out what their cadence is and how timely they are. And do they run around in circles, rethinking things over and over again. Build it into your plan, figure out how you can make it easier for them to do what they need to do.

And for you to succeed. As opposed to just saying, well, this is the way we do it. And we’re going to force square peg round hole.

Gini Dietrich: Right. Yeah. I love that. And I think it’s really important to be able to have those one on one conversations with your team to make sure that you are getting those answers.

And you’re right. One of the questions you should ask in every one to one is what obstacles are you facing and how do we help you? One of the things I’d say, and I think we’re all guilty of this is that we’re moving really fast. We… it’s really easy to jot off an email or to send a Slack message or a Teams message and put it into somebody else’s camp.

 So, and I’m guilty of this as well. But it’s so much easier in some cases to just pick up the phone and say, Hey, do you have five minutes? Or to send an email and say, I know you’re incredibly busy. Can I get 30 minutes to get this off of your plate? And most of the time, people are going to be really agreeable to that.

Gini Dietrich: So I say to my team all the time, pick up the freaking phone. Do not send a Slack message. Do not send an email. Do not text. Pick up the phone and call the client because I promise you, you’re going to save yourself two weeks of frustration if you just do that.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, and anytime you’ve got a relationship with a client where you need to get a steady flow of feedback or information from them, it’s really important.

Have a regular schedule of meetings with them, just as you do a weekly one on one with your own teams. If you, I mean, and not every client needs a weekly call. So I’m not, I’m not advocating that you just, you know, calendar yourself to death here. But if you’ve got someone where you’re, you have a lot of back and forth, where you have a lot of these things, a lot of times reviewing some of those status things on a conference call or zoom call or whatever, it can be a more comfortable way of doing it as opposed to sending that email that says, here are the things we’re missing.

Cause email… it, it, it feels much more accusatory. It feels much more aggressive in many cases. Whereas if we’re just having a conversation, we can say, you know, these are the three things that we’re really waiting on right now. And, then you can have a dialogue back and forth with the client to figure out how are we going to break this down?

And so a lot of times you’ll make progress more quickly by having that call. It’s one of the reasons why I think all these folks who say, well, you know, we need to have fewer meetings. No, you just need to have good meetings. That may mean that some of them go away. But it, it really, meetings can be very effective if you’re using them the right way.

Gini Dietrich: Yes, and meetings don’t have to be an hour long. They don’t have to be 30 minutes long. They can be 10 minutes. And I think that’s the other trap.

Chip Griffin: Very few are. In fairness, very few meetings last 10 minutes.

Gini Dietrich: Sure. Sure. But you can do that. You can schedule a 15 minute meeting. So it doesn’t, I think we get in this trap of everything has to be an hour.

Everything has to be 30 minutes. And that’s not the case. Correct. At all.

Chip Griffin: Correct. But more importantly, you need to go into the meeting and understand what you’re trying to get out of it.

Gini Dietrich: That’s right.

Chip Griffin: Because too many of these meetings you just, you, you wander into and you just kind of like, you kind of wander around aimlessly and talk about.

You need to know what you need to come out of that meeting with and if you’ve got obstacles, if there are things that you need from the client, you need to make sure that you address them early in the conversation and you need to make sure that you keep talking about them until you have resolution on at least what the next step is, not necessarily how you completely solved it, but, but at least make some progress on it so that you come out of it and you don’t end the conversation and go back with your team and say, geez, I feel like we’re right where we started 30 minutes ago.

Gini Dietrich: Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, I have, we have one client who their chief marketing officer and I very much both like to take walks during the middle of the day. And we usually, she and I usually take walks about the same time of the day and we call each other and we have a conversation. We don’t have a quote unquote scheduled meeting.

There isn’t a like, oh, we have to get this done. It’s just a chat that we have while we take a walk together and figure out like what’s missing, what needs to be done, what’s on the agenda. I know you met with the CEO today. What’s the, what came down from that? And it helps us help our teams. And it’s informal.

It’s not a formal thing. We don’t put it on the calendar. If we miss it, we do, like, it’s not a big deal. We probably do it two or three times a week though. So there are ways that you can get around this sort of, we have to have an hour meeting and it has to be every week and like… find informal ways to be able to get what you need.

Chip Griffin: I mean, the, the bottom line here is, you know, anytime that you’re not getting what you need from a client to be successful, you need to address it as soon as you know it’s a problem or think it might be a problem. You need to find a path to resolution. It’s not going to be the same in every single case.

You need to make sure that you’re having the internal dialogue so that you’re aware of these problems and you can start helping solve the problems on your end too and not just rely on the client. But ultimately you need to get these things resolved because sitting there and just complaining about them is never going to get you anywhere.

Waiting until there’s actual failure is not a good idea.

Overservicing is not a good idea. And so you need to be on top of these things because they’re only going to get worse. As client budgets continue to be tight and probably get tighter, it’s going to be something that you need to focus on because they may have fewer resources on their end to even fulfill some of the requests that you have.

And, and so you need to be in a position where you’re helping to solve these problems for them and helping them understand what you actually need in order to be successful. And what the consequences of, of not getting that are.

Gini Dietrich: That’s right. That’s right. And I think in part, and if you do these things, it puts you in a position of being a strategic counselor and not just an order taker.

Chip Griffin: Yes. So with that,

Gini Dietrich: Listen to us.

Chip Griffin: Listen to us. And, and, Gini, I appreciate all the feedback you’ve given on this topic.

Gini Dietrich: You’re welcome.

Chip Griffin: Today. With that, that will draw to an end this episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich.

Chip Griffin: And it depends.