Five words every agency owner needs to understand

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Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.

Chip Griffin: Gini, I’ve got, uh, I’ve got five words today, and that’s it. And then we’re outta here.

Gini Dietrich: F…U…

Chip Griffin: Words, not letters!

No, we’ve already used more than five words, so.

Gini Dietrich: Yep. No,

Chip Griffin: I guess

Gini Dietrich: you wrote about this.

Chip Griffin: I guess we’re probably gonna need to come up with more than five words for this episode.

Gini Dietrich: We’re, we should probably come up with several words for each of the five words, but you wrote about this and I thought it was really good. So we’re gonna talk about it.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, last fall, as I was sitting there looking for inspiration for my newsletter, I started thinking about some of the language that I frequently use when I’m talking with agency owners. And so it became a two-part series in the SAGA newsletter, about five words that are critical to agency management success.

And so, why not talk about them here?

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I think they’re really good.

Chip Griffin: We’re always looking for ideas. Might as well pick something that we actually did a little work on.

Gini Dietrich: Right. For a change.

Chip Griffin: For a change.

Gini Dietrich: We’ve got like four weeks in a row where we’ve done a little work.

Chip Griffin: I mean, this is, I… dear listeners, please do not get used to this.

We are not going to, you know, have actual prepared thoughts in advance of every episode. We just, we cannot handle that. A lot of it just needs to be off the cuff with us reacting to whatever randomly comes to mind in the seconds before I hit record.

Gini Dietrich: That’s right.

Chip Griffin: But this week we can tap into a little bit more depth.

Last week, I mean, last week we did a lot of research for episode 300.

Gini Dietrich: We did. We spent like days on that. It was a year’s worth of content.

Chip Griffin: We did research, we brought AI into it. We started reading through past, I mean

Gini Dietrich: mm-hmm. Yep.

Chip Griffin: It was, it was truly exhausting, so

Gini Dietrich: it was exhausting. I’m still recovering.

Chip Griffin: Fortunately this is work that was already done.

We’re just retapping into it. So, those five words that we’re going to be talking about today are leadership, management, accountability, responsibility, and authority. And we’re really looking at this through the lens of management of your business. So there’s a lot of other things that have to do with agencies where we can come up with other words perhaps, or other context for these words.

But this is really about how you manage the business, how you work with your team, how you work with clients, and all that sort of thing. And that was really what I was trying to get at here when I was trying to drill into these particular concepts.

Gini Dietrich: I think the first two leadership and management are really good ones because I think we are all guilty of thinking that management is, oh, we get to boss people around and tell people what to do and, you know, go on about our days.

And, I think we also confuse leadership and management. And so I think a good place to start is definitely there, which you did too, because it’s part one of your series.

Chip Griffin: I did, I thought those were, yeah, those were big important concepts to get squared away before you get into some of the ones that, you know, later on in the list are, are a little bit more nitty gritty.

And really about the functional aspect of it. When you’re thinking about leadership and management, you really have to think about it in my view in, in a couple of different ways and, leadership is more getting people who are willing and interested in following you somewhere. Right? It is, it is defining a path and convincing people, whether that’s prospects that you’re trying to get to become clients or team members who you’re getting to work together.

It really is, it’s more about, you know, the ideas and the communication around it and the motivation of people that comes together. Management then becomes more about resources and, you know, and more of the, in the management of it to… management’s more about management. How’s that for…there is a limit how much we prepare for these things.

It’s not like I have clear talking points.

Gini Dietrich: I would say management’s more in weeds. So like, if I were thinking about it from my, my agency’s perspective. I tend to be more of the leader, so I’m vision, visionary, I’m setting the stage, I’m talking about where we’re going. And then Shelly, who is our chief operating Officer, she’s doing like standard operating procedures.

She’s creating process, she’s creating procedures. She’s created an intranet where you get where you get out. Like that stuff to me, I would shoot myself in the head if I had to do that stuff. But she’s really, really good at it and she’s really good at creating the process. Like these are the things, this is how we do our work.

And so she allows me to focus on what I’m good at, and I, and then, and she in turn gets to focus on what she’s good at.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And that, and that CEO-COO split is, is a good, you know, sort of simple way of thinking about the difference in leadership and management. It’s not a hundred percent sure, but it’s, it gets you most of the way there in, in how you think it through.

I do think that almost all managers at every level need a little bit of both. Yeah, you can’t totally, even if you are a relatively junior manager. If you’ve got anybody reporting to you or you’re managing a project, you still need to have some of the leadership there in addition to the management.

So, but they are, they’re really important things to have. They are different things, but you need to be, in order to be successful as an agency business, you need to have both of these in robust amounts within the business. Otherwise, you’ll be rudderless, you’ll be profitless, and you probably won’t be generating results for your clients.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, and I think it’s, I mean, I personally believe that you’re, you have strengths in one or the other. You can probably do both. Like I can manage the business. I don’t love it, so I’m not great at it. I procrastinate, I can do it. But that’s why I hired somebody to manage those kinds of things.

Because I know how important it is. And, but if you can’t, if you don’t, like for many, many years I couldn’t afford to hire a COO. Right? And the business wasn’t big enough to have a COO, right? So what we did instead is we made it part of everybody’s job where I said, okay. As you’re doing this work, I need you to create a standard operating procedure.

I need you to jot down the process. And some were great at it and some not so great at it. So we had some that were good and some weren’t. But I will tell you, AI today helps immensely with that. We use Scribe now, I think Scribe now, or Scribe how? One of the two. And it like creates the SOP for you while you do the work, so you just let it capture your screen.

So there are lots of ways that you can do both. You can both be a manager and a leader, even if it’s not one of those is not a strength.

Chip Griffin: Well look, and at some level we’re all managers, right? Sure. Even if we are a solo and we don’t have any clients or we are just writing a book or something like that.

Yep. And just kind of doing it in isolation. Hard to do. But if you, even if you were that, you still need to have a level of management in the activity that you, yourself are doing. So, you know, none of us can give up on that completely. I think it’s really more thinking about the layers of management, and how deep you go.

So, you know, there are people who are, you know, pretty good at what I would call executive management. You know, figuring out big picture, what are the, what are the general things that we need to be working on and, you know, providing the rails within which you work and operate. Then there are other people who can make the trains run on time.

Gini Dietrich: Yep.

Chip Griffin: I am very much the former, not the latter. If you want someone to make the trains run on time, I’m way too all over the place with too many different ideas in order to do that effectively. And so, you know, and you have to understand as an individual and as a manager, what are your strengths in these areas?

Because if you don’t understand that you are a better leader than manager, you don’t know what to shore up in terms of the team or what things to work on yourself or what safeguards you need to put into place to make sure that you’re not ignoring the important stuff. So like for me, since I’m not great at making trains run on time, I use a lot of software to try to make sure that I record all the little things and put the deadlines in so that I don’t sit there a week later and say, oh, right, I was supposed to file my taxes last week.

I guess I should have done that. Right. So you’ve gotta have the systems in place to buffer yourself against the things that you’re not particularly good at to begin with.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Which I think is a really nice lead to accountability, which was your third word. Like we have to…it’s sort of like, you know, people will say to me all the time, gosh, I wish I was as disciplined as you are about exercise.

The reason I’m as disciplined as I am is because I have accountability partners. Like if I, there are plenty of mornings where the alarm goes off and I just wanna roll over and go back to sleep for an hour and a half. But I have somebody counting on me, either my coach or somebody that’s waiting for me at the gym or whatever it happens to be.

I have the accountability and that’s part of the reason I’m so, so disciplined. And I think we have to take that into our business as well. So even if you don’t have a team that can hold you accountable, there are plenty of resources. You know, there’s Slack communities, the Solo PR Pro community, the Spin Sucks community, the SAGA community on Slack.

I think you can hire a coach. Like there are lots of things that you can do to hold yourself accountable. But I think that to your point, is a really good lead-in from leadership and management.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And, the reason why I ended up writing about this over two weeks in my newsletter was not just because it was getting long.

It was.

Gini Dietrich: It was, sure.

Chip Griffin: But, also because leadership and management really do fit together. But then the other three, accountability, responsibility, and authority come together, in important ways. And, and one of the things that I have found with a lot of agency owners, when I talk to them about their teams, they’ll ask me, you know, how can I hold my team more accountable for the results that I need for them?

And it usually then evolves into a conversation about accountability, responsibility, and authority. Because you can’t really have accountability without the other two things.

Gini Dietrich: Yep.

Chip Griffin: And so they, they all are very much interconnected. And if you want to achieve results, particularly with your team, you need to think about how you mix these together.

Because look, I mean, employees. Sometimes I say that employees and clients are a little bit like children as far as how you have to coach them and get them to move in a particular direction. But they’re different from kids and, I mean, you can’t just take an employee and put ’em in timeout or send them to their room.

I mean, that’s

Gini Dietrich: Unfortunately not, no.

Chip Griffin: You know, you can try it. It’s, it’s not gonna work out.

Gini Dietrich: It’s probably not gonna work. Yeah.

Chip Griffin: So honestly, it doesn’t work all that well with kids either. But, you know, sometimes it makes you feel better. You know, my kids are way too old to be sent to their rooms now, so. It is what it is.

But when they were little, you, you kind of liked doing that occasionally at least, but you knew it was really never gonna solve anything. It just got them outta your hair for a bit. So, but with employees, you need to think about this because usually accountability is the last place that you go to in order to solve a team problem.

You really need to look at responsibility and authority first. Because you can only be accountable if you’ve been given responsibility for something, right? Right. So you can’t go and hold an employee accountable for something that you never told them that they had to do to begin with.

Gini Dietrich: Right.

Chip Griffin: And that doesn’t mean you need to tell ’em every little detail, right?

But you, they’ve got to understand that this is a task or a project for which they are responsible. And one of the things I always say to people, and I’m not original in this, but you can’t have more than one person who is truly responsible for a task or project. Because as soon as two people share responsibility equally, it ain’t gonna happen. It’s just human nature, everybody kind of assumes someone else will pick up the slack.

Gini Dietrich: It’s like a group project. Yep.

Chip Griffin: So you’ve gotta be clear who has responsibility for this, who is walking outta this meeting with responsibility to get it done. So you start there and then you can start thinking about accountability.

But, only if when you give them responsibility, you also give them authority, because this one I see all the time. You assign an employee something, you wanna hold them accountable. Because well, I, I, I told Sally that Sally was responsible for getting this done. But you didn’t give Sally the authority to go and get the resources she needed or to give the approvals herself.

You kept all of that to yourself, and so Sally wasn’t able to actually get the job done because Sally was too dependent upon you. So if you want to hold somebody accountable, you’ve got to give them responsibility and authority to get the job done.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, 100%. You know, one of the things that we do internally here is objectives and key results.

And so the leadership team will develop, we develop the company ones as a group, and then they develop their team ones. And then they are responsible for having their teams fill in their own. And so that practice alone has been really great from the perspective of helping everybody understand what they’re accountable for.

So even if you’re a team of two people, you can still do that, right? Like it’s, and you don’t have to use OKRs, you can use KPIs, you can use whatever kinds of goal setting you prefer. But the practice of setting the goal and helping everybody understand who’s responsible for what, I think is a, it does that.

Then of course you have to execute, right? But that’s where the accountability and responsibility comes in. But I think going through the practice of building those goals together really helps build that accountability. So people know, okay, this is what I’m responsible for. This is what so-and-so’s responsible for.

This is what happens if I don’t do my job. And they won’t be able to do their part of the job. So it kind of helps them understand how all of the trains work together.

Chip Griffin: Absolutely. And as agency leaders and managers, we think about this in client terms all the time, right? We sit there and we say, well, you know, the client wants us to do these things, but they haven’t given us the ability to make decisions around this. Or they haven’t given us the appropriate budget for something. Or they want us to have an impact on sales, but we can’t even talk to the sales team or whatever it might be. So we think about this naturally. All the time with our clients, and we chafe against the restrictions that our clients put in place, but we don’t think twice about putting those same handcuffs on our own employees.

And so we need to be thoughtful about that and say, look, if I wanna hold an employee accountable for profitability on something, or for results on a client project, or for leads that they’re generating for the agency, then I actually need to give them the responsibility and authority to do what they need to do in order to get that.

Otherwise, I have no business holding them accountable for something that I haven’t given them the flexibility to achieve.

Gini Dietrich: Absolutely. I think it’s just such a good practice in general, to think about that. And, you’re right, like the shoemaker’s children don’t have shoes. You know, we don’t, we don’t have great websites.

We don’t have great content. We don’t have great thought leadership. We don’t do any planning for ourselves. We sort of just wait for the phone to ring, to drive new business. All of the things that we would never do for our clients, like we plan for our clients. We set goals, we measure results, we do all those things.

That practice has to make it to your business as well, because if it doesn’t, you don’t have all of these things. You don’t have accountability and responsibility and leadership and management. You don’t have the ability to run a well-functioning, profitable business. You have to do those kinds of things just like you do for your clients.

Chip Griffin: Well, and the thing is, if we adhere to these various guidelines that these five words bring to mind, it improves not just the business of the agency, but generally the lives of the agency owner. And as we all know, I’m obsessed with trying to make owners happy in what they do and not just yes, you know, sitting there and feeling tortured by their own business that they decided to create.

And so a lot of these things get things off of your plate. It shares the responsibility and accountability across your team. But only if you’re willing to let go, you have to be willing to let go. And we talk all the time about the value in delegating things and all that. But, it really comes down to thinking about not just that I’ve delegated something, but that I’ve done it in a way that sets that team member up for success.

And if you’re delegating responsibility and authority, that should allow you to have more freedom and to spend your time differently. Now, if you assign those things, but you’re not really giving it and you’re just micromanaging. What’s the point? That doesn’t help the employee. It doesn’t help you. It doesn’t help the business.

So really think about these concepts and how you can internalize them to what the way that you are managing your business, and you’re more likely to see the results that you’re looking for, that your team wants, and ultimately that the clients want as well.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. You know, one of the things that I think is really important for agency owners to understand is that when you try to control everything, when you don’t delegate effectively, when you don’t give your team the authority and responsibility to do their jobs effectively, you are creating an environment that’s not fun to work in.

It’s not gonna be fun for your team, and it’s not gonna be fun for you. And one of the things I think that’s really easy for agency owners to, to understand is to put themselves in the shoes. So let’s say that you’re working with a client and they’ve hired you because of your expertise, and you’re really, really good at website development, let’s say.

Like really good at it. You understand how AI visibility works. You understand how that fits with SEO, you understand how that works with user experience and website design, like you’re one of the best at this. But the client keeps saying, no, I think you’re wrong, or I don’t wanna do it that way, or, and they don’t take your advice and they don’t use your expertise.

They keep talking over you. Or they say like, well, I asked AI and it told me this, and so you’re wrong. How does that make you feel? It doesn’t feel good. That’s how your team feels when you don’t delegate and give them the authority and the responsibility that they deserve to be able to help you grow the business.

That’s how they feel, and I think we can all put ourselves in those shoes to understand that doesn’t feel very good at all. So if you’ve hired the right people and they have an expertise to be able to help you grow the business, let them do their jobs.

Chip Griffin: And, if they still can’t, then you need to look at a different team, right?

Correct. I mean that, yes. You know, because when I talk with owners, a lot of times says, well, so and so isn’t capable of it. Well, who hired so and so? Right? I mean, you did.

Gini Dietrich: Yep.

Chip Griffin: You made that decision. Mm-hmm. You can undo that decision. You can make a better decision next time. Mm-hmm. But you can’t sit here and say that you need to micromanage them because they’re not up to the task.

Either they are and you can let go or they’re not, and you need to find a different solution. And usually, if an owner is honest with themselves and they sit down, more often than not, they realize that they can let go more than they thought. Again, we’ve said before it, it may be that they don’t do it exactly the same way that you would do it.

It may not be as perfect as you would do it. Not that we’re saying you’re perfect, but you know, you may think you are.

Gini Dietrich: Right.

Chip Griffin: And so if, if those are things that, that are getting in your way, figure out how to move past them. Because you, you really have to focus on making sure that you’re getting good enough and not perfection, not identical to the way you do it.

Because if you do, you’ll never be able to hire anybody and you’ll never be able to delegate and you’ll never be able to live these five words. Because they really, when you think about the list that I put together, it starts from sort of the highest level, the 30,000 foot, the leadership, getting people to follow you, all the way down to that core level of the delegation of authority to get things done across your team.

And you really need all of those elements to come together. Yep. If you wanna be sane, happy, and get the results that you want.

Gini Dietrich: Absolutely. Yes. So I know Jen will link to both parts of this. I thought it was really, really well done. So you can read that as an accompaniment and have it as a reminder.

Just put it on a post-it. Put those five words on a post-it note, stick ’em to your screen.

Chip Griffin: Perfect. Excellent. Well, I hopefully these five words, we gave you more than five words, but we gave you five words…

Gini Dietrich: Okay. That’s enough. Yeah.

Chip Griffin: Okay. My usual, tortured ending. So. With that, I will delegate the authority to all of you to get on with your days.

And, the responsibility to that was live these five words and Okay. We’re, we’re just gonna stop. Okay. With that. I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich

Chip Griffin: and it depends.